with the tax question really quickly, because what came up was the specifics of the bob ryan, romney tax cut plan. did either side make the case that their tax ideas were better? >> no is the answer. but what kills me is this president extended the tax cuts last year with the rationale that you don't increase taxes during a recession. >> but trying to pin paul ryan down on the specifics of what deductions he would get -- what he would take away to fill in that $5 trillion or whatever it is, and he wouldn't answer the question. >> , first of all, neither side has done that, and the little pbs comment from the last debate led to all sorts of big bird -- what paul ryan and what mitt romney said during the campaign is, when president reagan sat down, it was democratic leadership, everything is on the table. hit's get it done. we both know that, because we've both been there. we've both been part of compromises. >> when you heard him refuse to give any specifics without a win for the democrats. >> i think it's going to be a win for those people who really take it seriously. the fact is, it doesn'